Archive for July, 2014

modernist platonic dialogues

July 29, 2014

modernist platonic dialogues… to some extent modernism in writing is about abbreviating what needs to be written while increasing what needs to be read (according to whom) with respect both to the size of modernist works and to the amount of secondary material required to properly read those works (according to whom)

What the modernist would abbreviate/ do away with in Plato’s works is the whole conceit that his dialogues are sorts of drama, that philosophy is a conversation between people (the representation in writing of such a conversation): philosophy, the modernist would say, is truly a conversation between parts of one person’s own mind. (which modernists) (is philosophy –not written philosophy but philosophizing– the same if it doesn’t occur between people? if it occurs between ‘person’?) Even if Plato had been trying to recreate an actual dialogue that he had heard his written representation of it would nevertheless actually involve the different parts of his own mind, would say the modernist [What do you make of the fact that his dialogues are sometimes conversations about conversations? The Phaedo. Does that seem to you ‘modern’?]

The writer of the modernist platonic dialogue therefore would do away with the idea of characters but keep their statements, and keep intact that certain sorts of statements come from specific moods of the author or “places” within him. (explain if you are equating statements made by different sorts of “moods” –of the author– with characters? with different sorts of “assumptions” do you mean? What do you mean ‘places’, identities?) (Are Fielding’s Thwackum and Square examples of characters made from differing “assumptions” within him, within Fielding? Do you mean ‘categories’?]

* * *

If the Meno (for example) were written in the modernist style [do you mean modern?] there would be no Meno, no Socrates, and no slave, (no character of meno no character of Socrates no character of the slave) but only Plato, or, more likely, a character who was basically Plato but called something slightly different, something like Ploto, and the statements made by Meno, Socrates, the slave, would each appear in a different font face maybe, so as to call attention to the distinctions that occur within the thinking of “Ploto” which wouldn’t otherwise have any marker. (Finnegans Wake?)

The modernist version of a platonic dialogue would be more realistic than the originals because they would strive directly to express Plato’s thought rather than to express them through the mannequins of characters [how would that be different from Kant?][does it matter how well Plato has drawn his characters?] [Do pseudonyms like Kierkegaard’s figure into this?] [Is realism necessary to philosophy itself or just to “modernist expressions” of philosophy?]

The next question for the modernist [which modernist] would be the realistic portrayal of the thoughts as they occur to one in one’s consciousness. Do thoughts appear there fully formed, as they do in Plato’s works, or do they rather appear as fragments of language which the consciousness intuits the whole of instinctively, or does it vary from consciousness to consciousness and from time to time …

A related question: how would we describe how one of Plato’s characters arrived at formulating his expressed thought? What occurs in the mind of such a character between two expressions of thought? What occurs in the minds of the characters as, for instance, they listen to one of Socrates arguments or questions? Why didn’t Plato portray this?

I want to live

July 15, 2014

Coincidences. Three instances of having heard the phrase I want to live with reference to movies within a week, spoken by women in each case. ( I say nothing about quite how coincidental this is but do feel moved to delineate further the pattern of coincidence.)

1. In Rocco And His Brothers — the final third of it watched last Tuesday morning, as the Prostitute is killed by the weak, brutal brother Simone, rather a long stabbing scene hard for me to watch, so that I actually had the movie on fast forward when I saw the translated dialogue flash up of the prostitute saying “I want to live” as she was stabbed.

2. That afternoon, or the afternoon after, a friend told me he had watched a good movie the past night — I Want to Live with Susan Hayward. Had I seen it?

(Some days later the same friend brought in two LPs of the soundtrack to I Want to Live –by Gerry Mulligan– with reference to the conversation we’d had about the movie) (*).

3.And just now, and what has caused me to remember these other recent instances of this phrase spoken by women in the movies, which would have otherwise been forgotten– at least I believe Susan Hayward does in fact actually say “I want to live” in “I Want to Live” though I haven’t seen it in a while– was Casanova’s Big Night, in which Bob Hope tells a love interest, a widowed vegetable seller played by Joan Fontaine, he “can’t think of anyone he’d rather have his throat cut with” than her (something like that) (he’s afraid of what might result from their immanent encounter with the Doge of Venice, played by Arnold Moss) and she tells him to try not to be his “normal idiotic itself — I want to live.” (The line, intended as lightly comedic, caused me to sit bolt upright.)

*

The actresses were Annie Girardot, Susan Hayward, and Joan Fontaine. The different settings in which the phrase was spoken would be of interest to explore (well… the issue with coincidences is…. are they statistical, psychological or mystical). The movies were made in 1960, 1958, and 1954. I had thought to watch Casanova’s Big Night because in an interview with Woody Allen I came across, Allen, when asked what was a movie he liked that most people didn’t, (or something like that) answered “Casanova’s Big Night.”

July 5, 2014

*….**
*……..*……*
*…………….*…………….*
*………………..*………………..*
*……………………*……………………*
*……………………….*……………………….*
*………………………….*………………………….*
*………………………………*………………………………*
*……………………………….*……………………………….*
*…………………………………*…………………………………*

Kierkegaard…………Dostoevsky’s ideal of …………….The bay …………..
had said………………..the Russian Christ,……..……that the world’s…….
that his genius….of a russian service… . … largest bridge crosses…….
was not equal…………..to the world…………..is called the…………..
to that of…………..a country whose…………..Jiaozhou…………..
an apostle: what…………..job was to serve.bay. …………..
was his view…………..maybe more…………..…………..
exactly…………..the U.S.?…………..…………..

.

.

Lear’s Cornet/ Darnel

July 4, 2014

King Lear, [4.4.1-8]. Cord.

……….“Why, he was met even now
……….As mad as the vex’d sea, singing aloud,
……….Crown’d with rank fumiter and furrow-weeds,
……….With hardocks, hemlock, nettles, cuckoo-flow’rs,
……….Darnel, and all the idle weeds that grow
……….In our sustaining corn. A century send forth!
……….Search every acre in the high-grown field,
……….And bring him to our eye.”

1) Furrow-weed and Hardock appear only in King Lear and only in this speech;

2) Mention of Darnel occurs only in 1 Henry 6 (a satirical remark by Pucelle) and in Henry 5 (the “un-pruned garden” speech of Burgundy);

3) Cuckoo flowers appear elsewhere only in the “spring song” of Love’s Labor’s Lost;

4) Nettle appears semi-frequently in Shakespeare and corn is among his most frequently named plants;

5) fumiter appears elsewhere only in the Burgundy speech of Henry 5;

6) hemlock appears only in the Burgundy speech, and as part of the witch’s potion in Macbeth.

7) if this dating is accurate a good 8 or nine years occurred between Shakespeare’s first mention of darnel and his second, and another seven or eight years between his second and his third.

8) the only point of similarity, in respect of plants, between Lear’s cornet and Ophelia’s garland is the nettle.(Ophelia’s garland–below– has fewer plants)

9) In the 1 Henry 6 mention of darnel, Pucelle enters Rouen disguised as a poor farmer trading corn and, after achieving her aims, scoffs that her corn was ‘full of darnel’. The man she makes this remark to is named Burgundy. Burgundy swears he’ll make her curse “the harvest of that corn.”

10) In King Lear there is also a character named Burgundy; he has come to England as a suitor to Cordelia but declines the match when she loses her dowry.

11) There is a character named Burgundy in only three plays: 1 Henry 6; Henry 5; and King Lear.

12) In each play with a character named Burgundy, there is also a mention of the plant darnel.

***
Ophelia’s garland
(Hamlet, Act 4, Scene 7, 166-173)

There with fantastic garlands did she come
Of crow-flowers, nettles, daisies, and long purples
That liberal shepherds give a grosser name,
But our cold maids do dead men’s fingers call them:
There, on the pendent boughs her coronet weeds 170
Clambering to hang, an envious sliver broke;
When down her weedy trophies and herself
Fell in the weeping brook.